SpaceLiner: Europe-Australia, 90 minutes, Europe-US, one hour

SpaceLiner: Europe-Australia, 90 minutes, Europe-US, one hour

In aviation circles, the talk of the future involves phrases like "space planes" and "hypersonic atmospheric flight vehicles." A group presently in the spotlight is from Germany; they are carrying a roadmap for low-cost space access which involves calling upon the air passenger market for fast-travel flights.

Welcome to the world of SpaceLiner, which, when fully developed, could have dramatic impact in global aerospace. The DLR Institute of Space Systems said this suborbital, hypersonic, winged passenger transport idea is under investigation at DLR-SART. (DLR is a German aerospace research agency and it evaluates complex systems of space flight. SART is Space Launcher Systems Analysis.)

SpaceLiner is a rocket-propelled intercontinental passenger transport, described by the institute as a two-stage vehicle powered by rocket propulsion.

Guy Norris, Los Angeles-based senior editor for Aviation Week, described it as a rocket-powered system that incorporates a flyback booster and other dual-use technologies which could also be applied to "architectures for launching payloads into low Earth orbit." Conceived as a winged airliner carrying 50 passengers from Europe to Australia in 90 minutes, Norris added that, to serve a potentially larger market, DLR has also outlined a 100-seat version that would be capable of one-hour intercontinental and transpacific missions.

The concept being laid out in detail sounds like a business feasibility study as much as a technical initiative. The backdrop for all this lies in the cost factor in space transportation. This has been a key challenge. Production is one of the main cost drivers due to the very low manufacturing numbers of stages and engines. If the number of launches per year were to be increased, manufacturing and operating cost of launcher hardware would shrink. Without a new market application for space technology no improvement is to be expected, said the Institute. What could ignite a larger market?

"A new kind of high-speed transport based on a two-stage Reusable Launch Vehicle (RLV) has been proposed by DLR under the name SpaceLiner," they stated.

Liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen will be used as propellants. They said the combination was both powerful and eco-friendly."

The reusable vehicle would be accelerated by 11 liquid —nine for the booster and two for the passenger stage, operated using the cryogenic liquid oxygen and hydrogen.

Mark Prigg in the Daily Mail said that "Engineers predict that advances in materials could be combined with new cooling technologies and heat shielding to safeguard the SpaceLiner's structures against the intense heat of hypersonic flight."

The passenger cabin could function as an autonomous rescue capsule that could separate from the vehicle in case of an emergency, allowing the passengers to return safely to Earth.

The SpaceLiner could play a cost-cutting role by stimulating large production runs of reusable rocket engines and booster vehicles.

Martin Sippel, leader of the SpaceLiner project at DLR's Space Launcher Systems Analysis group, talked to Aviation Week about these plans.

"We could increase hundredfold the number of launches and, as it is a reusable vehicle designed for between 150 and 300 flights, you have serial production of engines. If you have 11 engines per vehicle then you would build 2,000 engines per year or so. That's a huge production run, and that was the motivation."

The concept involves a two-stage, vertical-takeoff configuration of a large unmanned booster and a manned stage designed for 50 passengers, for example, and two crew members. The fully-reusable vehicle is accelerated by a total of eleven liquid rocket engines (9 for the booster, 2 for the passenger stage), which are to be operated using cryogenic liquid oxygen (LOX) and hydrogen (LH2).

After engine cut-off, the orbiter stage is to enter a high-speed gliding flight phase and be capable of traveling long intercontinental distances within a very short time. Altitudes of 80 kilometers and Mach numbers beyond 20 are projected, depending on the mission.

Long-distance trips such as Europe –Australia could be accomplished in 90 minutes. An intercontinental route between Europe and North-West America could be reduced to flight times of slightly more than one hour.

We are talking about a new era, potentially, of rocket-based, ultra-fast transportation as a new application for launch vehicles.

The group mentioned other intercontinental missions, which potentially could generate market demand.

With SpaceLiner travel, the thinking is that production rates of the reusable launch vehicles and rocket engines could increase hundredfold.

What's next on their roadmap? Norris said that early concept reviews would take place around 2016-17; the next review, in 2019-20. After that, Norris described various next steps before building the first hardware in 2030. Flight tests of the prototype could begin in 2035, with service entry in the 2040s. "It sounds a long way off into the future but we need to achieve our 2020 goal of funding, otherwise we cannot keep these later dates," Sippel said in Aviation Week.


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Planners for hypersonic SpaceLiner craft propose a 50 year timeline

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Aug 20, 2015
one hour flight time to the USA, plus three hours for check in and security plus three hours getting to the spaceport plus another three hours trying to get your baggage back from Australia. Does it really save much time?

Part of the reason for grounding Concorde was that there just weren't enough filthy rich people to make it pay.

Aug 20, 2015
This is honestly just ridiculous. It will never be built. There is simply no need to transport ~50 people around the planet in 90 minutes when you can just take out your smartphone and do the same thing in 90 milliseconds.


Aug 20, 2015
do the same thing in 90 milliseconds.


So you are in the habit of visiting your grandmother for thanksgiving through the phone?


Aug 20, 2015
Think you've missed the point here people. They want to make access to SPACE cheaper, and to do that you need economies of scale. To achieve that, they propose to use the same system to transport passengers around the world quickly.

Makes sense. But so have many other space plane concepts. Be nice to see one actually implemented.

Aug 20, 2015
I think these folk have never gone hypersonic in controlled vehicle. We did it in the 1960's, and not since.

If you fancy it, check this out:

http://tacairnet....ht-ever/

Aug 20, 2015
Gkam the psychopath finds yet another thread with the excuse to talk about himself when he was a 20yo AF vo-tech grad.

Click on his links at your own peril.

@Harlingen

You have no imagination. The people who will build this thing apparently do, which is why it is being built.

Aug 20, 2015
The link I provided was not the first time we went hypersonic, it was the last. The first time was actually hilarious, and a real example of true professionalism. I will not paste it here, but can send it out if requested.

Aug 20, 2015
You never went hypersonic. You think 'we' impresses people?

And has anyone ever asked you for more info besides the things you lie about?

No. Nobody gives a shit.

Aug 20, 2015
"We" is the term for us at the Air Force Flight Test Center. It does not include you.

Did you get the pdf of the base newspaper with my name and picture on the front page?

Yeah, apparently real people do care, Toots. I got a very nice note from the Commandant of the Air Force Flight Test Center.

Aug 20, 2015
"Did you get the pdf of the base newspaper with my name and picture on the front page?"

-A psychopathic megalomaniac might think this has some significance.

But like I say, nobody here gives a shit.

Obviously.

Why would I get a pdf? You sent something to ira. He said it contained absolutely no evidence of your knowledge of anything.

It DID include evidence that you are a college dropout, that your training consisted of only 32 weeks in an AF vo-tech school, and that you were among literally hundreds who received 'airman of the month'.

This is not proof of acumen, only tgat you are seriously self-deluded.

This is obvious to the people here, as well as to all those supervisors who canned you for incompetence over the years.

Aug 20, 2015
This is getting to be fun. I mention something in which I have experience, and a troll hiding behind a pseudonym attacks me personally.

I guess that "getting even" stuff becomes the prime motivator in puerile beings, pure brainstem, no Human filter, just unmitigated maladjustment. At any rate, it gives me a chance to prove some of us have actually done something in life besides act as trolls.

Aug 20, 2015
Cryogenic rocket engines are not cheap nor easy to maintain.

Aug 20, 2015
"Cryogenic rocket engines are not cheap nor easy to maintain."
--------------------------------------

Wait until they see what hypersonic wind speeds do to the aircraft.

Aug 20, 2015
@gkam How much wind speed is there at 80km altitude? Not much air up there!!!

Aug 20, 2015
This is highly welcome, urgently needed and free or cheap to use for every one, since it will be engineered in such a way that the engines output condenses in fine water droplets, creating significant cloud coverage for alledo enhancement all over the world. It will be eveyones duty to circle the turkey around the planet at least once or twice befor handing it over to grandma for cooking, even if that geoengineering helps only centuries later. Smartphones can't do this, even it it's promised in Apple's commercials. :-)
But fun aside, research is OK, but I would hot bet one € in a technology promising to deliver 25 years later!

Aug 20, 2015
"How much wind speed is there at 80km altitude? Not much air up there!!!"
---------------------------------------

Enough to cook you. Then, we have the screaming-fast re-entry, since the lack of air does not slow down the craft until it hits the atmosphere.

Here is what happened when Pete Knight went 4520 MPH, came down and deadsticked the landing on the lakebed:

http://tacairnet....ht-ever/

Aug 21, 2015
do the same thing in 90 milliseconds.


So you are in the habit of visiting your grandmother for thanksgiving through the phone?



You've never met my grandmother. :)P

But anyways if your grandmother lives on the other side of the globe and you can afford a hyper ticket price on a sub orbital rocket with possibility of instant catastrophic death. Then you can afford to take the time and spend a week or two there after taking a private jet or first class plane ticket, I'm sure she'd love to have you there.

Think you've missed the point here people. They want to make access to SPACE cheaper, and to do that you need economies of scale. To achieve that, they propose to use the same system to transport passengers around the world quickly.


Making access to space cheaper is great, all for it. But don't advertise it as a sub orbital bus for business travel instead of what it would actually be used for: Cargo.

Aug 21, 2015
"Making access to space cheaper is great, all for it. But don't advertise it as a sub orbital bus for business travel instead of what it would actually be used for: Cargo."


If it's cheap enough to shuttle iphones from Malaysia to London, it's cheap enough to shuttle people.

"With the advent of the smartphone does anyone need a face-to-face encounter with grandma?"

Grandma.

It's not a technology with old people -issue. It's a human relationships issue. If you're seriously making the argument, you might as well get married online and have children through artifical insemination.

Aug 21, 2015
What does Eikka have against progress?

No matter the technology, he/she spends all day here telling us "it won't work", . . . as it works.

Aug 21, 2015
"At any rate, it gives me a chance to prove some of us have actually done something in life besides act as trolls."

-Nothing you've done makes it true that fallout is the main cause of lung cancer, that there was an H2-initiated nuclear explosion at fukushima which threw vessel parts 130km without leaving a crater, that pools are commonly used for residential cooling, or any of the other equivalent bullshit you post.

But you expect us to believe that it does, without question, just because you post your real name.

How come?

Why does this make no sense to anyone here but you?

Are you that sick?

You claim that your stint as a 20yo AF vo-tech grad makes you a reliable source on aircraft design and surveillance networks.

It's worth pointing out just how ridiculous this is every time you post it.

Aug 21, 2015
I think otto has never even seen any special aircraft, yet he has trouble learning from those of us who have such experience. I found the X-15 and the Lifting Bodies extremely interesting. But I loved the XB-70. As fast as a Blackbird, it was a huge intercontinental bomber, flying at Mach Three, it would folk down its wingtips to trap its own supersonic shock wave for lift.

When otto hid from the military, he lost the opportunity to experience more of life. Now, as a bitter neverwas, he can only tear down others.

Aug 21, 2015
I think otto has never even seen any special aircraft, yet he has trouble learning from those of us who have such experience
George wants us to believe that a 20yo AF vo-tech grad and college dropout can tell us how these planes are designed simply by looking at them.

No expert, pro, or engr would ever think he could sell such nonsense on a site full of such people.

This is how ignorant you appear to the people here, dor you realize that?

Nobody cares what you saw or did back then or during the 20+ jobs you had and lost since.

Has anyone expressed any interest whatsoever?

Why do you insist on lying to yourself about this??

Why do you insist on lying to the people here about your bogus education and experience?

Your lies are childish and transparent and revolting.

You are the only one interested in them.

Aug 21, 2015
"Has anyone expressed any interest whatsoever?"
--------------------------------------

Yeah, I sold one of them to Smithsonian Air and Space Magazine for publishing. It had to do with the EC-135N they later called the ARIA.

Aug 21, 2015


But like I say, nobody here gives a shit.
Seems rather presumptuous at best.
'inferiority complex'?
Not uncommon for Military to speak in terms of 'we' and 'us', etc.
Part of the 'team' mentality and 'unit cohesion' I suppose.
Are you upset that he can speak about his military background with pride?
If so, why. As for me, I DO give a shit and hold all the Military in high esteem.

Aug 21, 2015
"Not uncommon for Military to speak in terms of 'we' and 'us', etc. Part of the 'team' mentality and 'unit cohesion' I suppose."
----------------------------------------

It is natural. We were relatively isolated from the rest of society, and everyone in uniform was one of "us". When we lost aircraft and people, we lost part of "us". When the Navy lost the Scorpion those 99 men were some of "us".

It is why veterans have respect for each other.

Aug 22, 2015
No vet who read the shit you post or the outrageous claims you make would ever respect you.

I bet you are already aware of this even if you don't have the courage to admit it to yourself.

Aug 22, 2015
The post above, by a draft-dodger, is one reason veterans have little respect for them. We defended these cowards, who now need to deprecate what we did for them.

Aug 22, 2015
And george, nobody HERE has EVER expressed an interest in your so-called accomplishments, have they?

The people here aren't interested in hearing about the dubious testimony of liars and braggarts.

Most are here to share knowledge and speculation about the stories they read here, not talk about themselves.

HOW MANY TIMES have you been told this?

Aug 22, 2015
The outsiders, those who stood by and watched as the rest of us did the work are now sensitive about it. Sideliners like otto are especially prickley about having to face his own set of decisions.

And when he finds someone in his "game" who is real, he comes apart, monomaniacally following me around with nasty comments. Those who have never done anything are really sensitive about it.

As it happens, I really did work on rocket-powered aircraft in the Air force. Otto did not even know what they were. And I was there when we first went hypersonic. Sorry, otto.

Aug 22, 2015
I have been trying to explain all this to folk like otto, who got his knowledge of the military from video games and Sergeant Rock comic books, but their egos prevent them from learning.

The idea of hypersonic planes is far off. These folk have no idea of the conditions at Mach 6 or 7.

Aug 22, 2015
"I really did work on rocket-powered aircraft in the Air force"

-And again, nobody cares. We can find all we need to know about rocket powered aircraft from real experts on the internet.

Nobody cares what self-absorbed, lying psychopaths who were lowly grunts back then, have to say.

HOW MANY TIMES do you have to hear the obvious?

"These folk have no idea"

-And neither do lying bullshit artists who were 20yo AF vo-tech grad school at the time.

Everybody here knows this which is why NO ONE here ever asks you about it.

Do they?

What a sick old man you are.

Aug 22, 2015
"I really did work on rocket-powered aircraft in the Air force"

-And again, nobody cares. We can find all we need to know about rocket powered aircraft from real experts on the internet.

Nobody cares what self-absorbed, lying psychopaths who were lowly grunts back then, have to say.

HOW MANY TIMES do you have to hear the obvious?

"These folk have no idea"

-And neither do lying bullshit artists who were 20yo AF vo-tech grad school at the time.

Everybody here knows this which is why NO ONE here ever asks you about it.

Do they?

What a sick old man you are.

Aug 22, 2015
"And I was there when we first went hypersonic. Sorry, otto."

-And how many janitors, truck drivers, and cafeteria workers were there as well?

What makes you think that you know more about it than them?

Aug 22, 2015
"And I was there when we first went hypersonic. Sorry, otto."

-And how many janitors, truck drivers, and cafeteria workers were there as well?

What makes you think that you know more about it than them?

Aug 22, 2015
"What makes you think that you know more about it than them?"
-----------------------------

The fact we were responsible for the motherships and the launch preparedness. Shall I send you what it is like to go out in the middle of the night to the floodlit hulking B-52, the oldest ones ever, surrounded by newsreel cameras and hustling airmen like me doing our technical jobs so the mission can fly? It was serious stuff. I really liked it.

My first X-15 launch activity was June 8, 1966, the day the XB-70 crashed, but you do not get to read about it.

Aug 22, 2015
"""The post above, by a draft-dodger, is one reason veterans have little respect for them. We defended these cowards, who now need to deprecate what we did for them."""

Skippy how you know otto-Skippy was the draft dodger? Or is this something else you think you should say without any proofs? Oh yeah, you did not get drafted either. You joined up with Air Force to dodge the draft so you would not be a Marine-Skippy or Army-Skippy.

"""We defended these cowards"""

You went to the radio school.

"""what we did for them""""

You proved you went to the radio school. Even though I was not borned then so you did not do it for me, thank you for going to the radio school and not the Marines and the Armies when you lost your "Get-Out-Of-The-Draft-Free-Card" after you dropped out of the college.

Aug 22, 2015
This is about hypersonic aircraft. Ever seen any?

Aug 22, 2015
'''''This is about hypersonic aircraft. Ever seen any?'''''

Maybe I did and maybe I didn't. Even if I saw one by accident, it don't mean I know more than the scientist-Skippys know about them. How does going to the radio school qualify you to be the aeronautical engineer? Seems like just keeping up with the radios would keep you busy enough without you goofing off trying to study up on the designing and flying of the super top secret planes.

glam-Skippy you don't have anything that anybody here wants. And you can not make them want to look at you in wonder and awe. Your demeanors is like a little kid play acting. Even the peoples who are in your "tribe" have told you that over and over here. That makes you about the dumbest couyon here.

Aug 22, 2015
" How does going to the radio school qualify you to be the aeronautical engineer? Seems like just keeping up with the radios would keep you busy enough without you goofing off trying to study up on the designing and flying of the super top secret planes."
--------------------------------

You do not know enough to even ask the right questions. I said nothing about being an aeronautical engineer, so apparently you have trouble with the English language.

I was a Comm Tech, and went out to help with launches for the X-15 and the M2-F2. I also worked on aircraft for the Aerospace Research Pilot School, and the special projects, such as XC-142, p.1127, F-111 prototypes, NF-104s, U-2s and such.

Later I was sent to help start up Igloo White. I sent you to the websites of those organizations, but you want to deny them.

Aug 22, 2015
""""""I sent you to the websites of those organizations, but you want to deny them.""""""

What I deny is that any of them said you were the engineer of anything. They did not even say you were the anything of anything. Skippy, that means they did not mention you or anything you did. It was smoke and mirrors.

If I send you to the NASA website, will that convince you I worked for NASA building super dooper satellites?

Here, I am going to send you to the http://www.keckob...ory.org/ to prove I am telling the trut when I tell you I am the master super astrophysicist-Skippy and star engineer who taught 33,000 astrophysicists all the good stuff they ever learned.

Aug 22, 2015
Oh, my, . . we now see what minimal education does.

What I sent you was a catalog of reports from NASA research. My name and report abstract are on page 41, at the top. I sent a pdf of the front page of the base newspaper of Edwards AFB showing I really was there at that time.

I sent you to 1stwave.com and Westin's page for BatCats, and the page of the ARIA for my name and pictures. You haven't even heard about the ARIA. You won't like it.

What you got, "Ira"?

I commented on this thread because I have experience in the field. What brought you here?

Aug 22, 2015
"""""""I sent you to 1stwave.com"""""""

That place is trying to get me send some money to them.

"""""""and Westin's page for BatCats,"""""""

You did not send me that page.

""""""and the page of the ARIA for my name and pictures."""""

You did not send me that, nice try.

""""""You haven't even heard about the ARIA."""""

Of course I haven't, I just told you that you didn't send it to me.

""""""You won't like it.""""""

That's about as stupid as most of your witty glibby postums. If it all the same to you I will decide what I like and don't like.

Aug 23, 2015
"I have experience in the field."


Sayings of the Buddha:
Verse 72. The Knowledge Of The Wicked Splits His Head

Truly to his detriment
skill is born to the fool;
ruined is his better nature
and scattered are his wits.

Explanation: Whatever is learned by the ignorant is conducive to harm. It brings about his own downfall. Misplaced learning destroys whatever potential the learner possesses and renders him useless in terms of real knowledge.

Verse 74. The Ignorant are Ego-Centred

Both monks and laymen, let them think
'This was done by me,
whatever the works, both great and small,
let them depend on me'.
Such the intention of a fool,
swollen his greed and conceit.

Explanation: The ignorant has this attitude of mind: "Let everybody know that this was done by me alone. In whatever activity small or big my leadership shall prevail. Everybody must follow me." This conceit of the ignorant leads to craving, uncontro

Aug 23, 2015
... This conceit of the ignorant leads to craving, uncontrolled desire and to a groundless pride, to a false sense of superiority. These begin to grow.

Aug 23, 2015
"What does Eikka have against progress?"


Why do you even bother saying that when I'm actually not saying this thing won't work, and you're the one saying it doesn't?

"No matter the technology, he/she spends all day here telling us "it won't work", . . . as it works."


I am only ever pointing out the obvious. If you wish to deny it and pretend otherwise, that's your own folly.

Also, the point of the preaching above was that if you really have experience and relevant information to share, you would share that instead of talking about how you have experience.

In another parable: When a master points at the moon, the idiot looks at the finger. When the idiot attempts to repeat the master's teaching, he simply repeats the pointing of finger, still understanding that his own finger is important and not what it's pointing at.

If you're in the habit of reading zen stories, that's why Gutei cut off the boy's finger.


Aug 23, 2015
"The fact we were responsible for the motherships and the launch preparedness. Shall I send you what it is like to go out in the middle of the night to the floodlit hulking Blah..."

-Ah see? I just gave the psychopath another chance to talk about himself.

Nobody cares.

Nobody - absolutely nobody - gives a shit what you have to say.

HOW do I know this? Because if there was a venue where people would actually WANT to hear you brag about your inflated and exaggerated experience, you would be posting there.

But you are still posting here where NOBODY has shown any interest in your fairy tales whatsoever.

Why don't you just go and fawn and primp in front of a mirror?

'I saw a plane' says gkam. 'We' were responsible' says gkam. So were the clerks and cleaning ladies. You were the equivalent.

Again, who gives a shit? Lying cheating psychopaths are never reliable sources of info.

You've proven this time and again.

Aug 23, 2015
"I was a Comm Tech, and went out to help with launches for the X-15 and the M2-F2. I also worked on aircraft for the Aerospace Research Pilot School, and the special projects, such as XC-142, p.1127, F-111 prototypes, NF-104s, U-2s and such"

-and nobody here gives a shit.

You are a lying cheating psychopath. People here do give a shit about that.

Aug 23, 2015
You do, otto, so I post them for you. Remember the cheap kazoo? You are being bested in your own game, and are unable to deal with it. Unable to admit failure in your silly game of "gotcha", you develop a fixation of "getting even" with the guy who let you make a fool of yourself.

Try screaming dirty words again in ALL CAPS. That always means the other guy won the argument.

But this is about hypersonic aircraft, and I sent you and Eikka and the others to sites with the information regarding our own hypersonic flights. I warned you about the tremendous heat and other factors
(http://tacairnet....-ever/),
but if I recounted what it took do do one, you would complain, even in a thread exactly about hypersonic flight.

You folk on the sidelines sure get cranky when a real person shows up.

Aug 23, 2015
"Explanation: The ignorant has this attitude of mind: "Let everybody know that this was done by me alone. In whatever activity small or big my leadership shall prevail. Everybody must follow me." This conceit of the ignorant leads to craving, uncontro"
---------------------------------------

Eikka, you're coming apart. Go do a doobie. Suck down a Scotch.

I went where I was sent, and did what I should have done. I did not plan to be anywhere, it is where they put me. Since I was there in the glory year of Eddie's, I got to see and be a small part of it. It was just what happened.

I thought others would be interested in what it took, who did what, what the dangers were, the vehicles, the people involved in the first hypersonic flights. Yeah, my perspective was that of a worker bee, an ant, one of the technicians doing his job. The view from the pilots, the Launch Control Operator, and the others will be different.

Aug 24, 2015
do the same thing in 90 milliseconds.


So you are in the habit of visiting your grandmother for thanksgiving through the phone?



Well. besides in the USA the rest of the planet never had a reason to thank Native Americans for helping us to food because our colonies in Amsterdam or Mumbai were starving ;)

Aug 24, 2015
"You do not know enough to even ask the right questions"

-And neither does an AF vo-tech-trained gopher who thinks that looking at a plane and fiddling with comm equipt makes him an expert on aircraft design.

"I said nothing about being an aeronautical engineer"

-You claimed that the engrs and scientists who are working on the project in the article dont know as much as you do about aircraft design.

You said:

"I think these folk have never gone hypersonic in controlled vehicle. We did it..."

-about the designers in the article, implying that as a "Comm Tech" who "went out to help", you know more about aircraft design than they do.

This is why people laugh at you.

This is how they know youre full of shit.

Aug 24, 2015
"Are you upset that he can speak about his military background with pride?"

If you had been following what this psychopath has been saying, you would know that he lies about his experience in order to justify the facts he makes up.

"If so, why. As for me, I DO give a shit and hold all the Military in high esteem"

-I hold all in high esteem who dont lie about what they did. I have relatives in the military.

George Kamburoff lies about what he did and what he learned. He claimed for instance that he worked directly for mcnamara designing, fabricating, installing, and operating spy systems as a 20yo AF vo-tech grad and college dropout.

This is obviously a lie.

Stop encouraging this psychopath.

Aug 24, 2015
Gosh, otto, you have crossed the line and are slandering me.

Go get help for your pathetic need to punish those who beat you at your own silly game of gotcha. Your malevolence is now public and obvious.

Once again, "I went where I was sent, and did what I should have done. I did not plan to be anywhere, it is where they put me. Since I was there in the glory year of Eddie's, I got to see and be a small part of it. It was just what happened.

I thought others would be interested in what it took, who did what, what the dangers were, the vehicles, the people involved in the first hypersonic flights. Yeah, my perspective was that of a worker bee, an ant, one of the technicians doing his job. The view from the pilots, the Launch Control Operator, and the others will be different."
---------------------

As we see, the view from psychopathy is very different still.

Aug 24, 2015
"I thought others would be interested"

-Well thats a lie. You use these topics as an excuse to talk about yourself and you dont really care whether others are interested or not.

Which, obviously, theyre not.

This is how sick you are.

"Gosh, otto, you have crossed the line and are slandering me... gotcha"

-Read iras posts above. You claimed you sent him things that you didnt.

You are a liar.

Aug 24, 2015
George keeps forgetting that this is not some lunch-and-learn where he can make up facts and get away with it.

This is the internet where everything you have said here is recorded for posterity. Most of your fabrications and lies about your past have been debunked, even if you have chosen to forget about them, and are available for replay.

And none of your bluster or your threats can change this fact.

You cant pretend to be somebody that youre not and get away with it HERE.

Why cant you understand this?

Aug 24, 2015
How do we rid ourselves of folk like otto? Psychological fixations are not healthy, soon turn to hatred, then emotional instability leading to character attacks, then violence.

If this group does not police itself, then it abandons this forum to domination by not just the emotionally unstable, but religionists, anonymous lurkers, "gamers", science deniers, the extreme selfish, and those enslaved to politics.

Aug 24, 2015
"In the book Violent Attachments, women and men have noted the particular stare of the psychopath - it is an intense, relentless gaze that seems to preclude his destruction of his victim or target.'

-Go look in the mirror.
http://www.wral.c...4849514/

-Look familiar?

Aug 24, 2015
""In the book Violent Attachments, women and men have noted the particular stare of the psychopath - it is an intense, relentless gaze that seems to preclude his destruction of his victim or target.'"
----------------------------------------------

Is that a threat?

Did you flip out completely, otto?

Really? What are you going to do?

Aug 24, 2015
""In the book Violent Attachments, women and men have noted the particular stare of the psychopath - it is an intense, relentless gaze that seems to preclude his destruction of his victim or target.'"
----------------------------------------------

"Is that a threat?

"Did you flip out completely, otto?

"Really? What are you going to do?"

-What do mean - are you threatening yourself? Did you look in the mirror and recognize the stare?

No, threats are alleging slander, threatening outing, threatening to make good on 'cold dead hands', and so forth. You threaten quite often. You have threatened many here.

The only thing I threaten you with is exposure, which I and others do every day.

Aug 24, 2015
It's getting late there in he Midwest, otto. Time to put away your daily worries so you can dream of me again tonight.

Do you get really bothered at night? Don't forget certain acts are mortal sin.

Nighty-night

Aug 25, 2015
"How do we rid ourselves of folk like otto? Psychological fixations are not healthy, soon turn to hatred, then emotional instability leading to character attacks, then violence."


One thing leads to another. Your posturing with "I am the expert, ask me anything" leads to other people questioning your expertise. The more you pose, the more you reveal your actual understanding and expertise - or lack thereof - and the general response is accordingly.

"Fools of feeble wisdom fare
enemies to themselves,
making evil karma
which is of bitter fruit.

When evil karma's immature
the fool thinks it is honeyed,
but when the evil has matured
then to the fool comes suffering."

Aug 25, 2015
Unable to debate the message, Eikka stoops to smear and attack the messenger.

I never said I was an "expert" in anything, you did, so you could refute and attack it. That's otto-style stuff.

How many times do I have to say it?

"I went where I was sent, and did what I should have done. I did not plan to be anywhere, it is where they put me. Since I was there in the glory year of Eddie's, I got to see and be a small part of it. It was just what happened.

I thought others would be interested in what it took, who did what, what the dangers were, the vehicles, the people involved in the first hypersonic flights. Yeah, my perspective was that of a worker bee, an ant, one of the technicians doing his job. The view from the pilots, the Launch Control Operator, and the others will be different."

I am not going to apologize for experience.


Aug 25, 2015
"I never said I was an "expert" in anything"

-OF COURSE you did. You said

"I think these folk have never gone hypersonic in controlled vehicle... These folk have no idea of the conditions at Mach 6 or 7"

-which means you think you know more about the subject than the scientists and engrs in the article who have studied it, including 'looking' at the exact same aircraft you did.

But they examined them from the perspective of professionals, fully familiar with theory and schematics and design calcs, while you did so as a gopher and board-solderer and a switch-flipper.

"my perspective... I am not going to apologize for experience"

-And youre not going to admit that its pretty worthless, which is why people here are not interested in it.

Aug 25, 2015
"""""""I never said I was an "expert" in anything, you did, so you could refute and attack it."""""""

glam-Skippy. I am not still in this because I have some kind of obsession with you. But you still seem to think we are ALL really stupid. How can you tell that lie right there with the straight face? You have told us over and over and a lot more overs that you were the senior engineer at the foundry, and again at the semiconductor place, and again at the power company, and again at the place you did the tests for NASA and again when you traveled the country to fix robots, and again when you taught 33,000 engineers the good stuff they didn't learn in school.

All your posts are still here because physorg don't let you take down silly stuff after three minutes. Do you think we are so stupid that saying something silly like that makes all the silly claims go away?

How many times you come back with """"""someone not in the business of"""""? 6 or 5 hundred?

Aug 25, 2015
Ira, I thought you promised to stop the character assassination.

I have never used the term "expert" for myself. Never, not once. Yeah, I had those jobs, and did those things, but never called myself an "expert". You did that. Please give it up.

Aug 25, 2015
"Ira, I thought you promised to stop the character assassination.

"I have never used the term "expert" for myself. Never, not once. Yeah, I had those jobs, and did those things, but never called myself an "expert"."

-So fucking what? You think you know MORE than the people who did all the work necessary to become experts.

And you achieved this extraordinary level of acumen in the AF while 20 years old, as a vo-tech grad.

Youre delusional.

Youre sick.

Face it you coward.

"Please give it up"

-You will never find peace here. Move on.

Aug 25, 2015
""""Ira, I thought you promised to stop the character assassination."""""

I am just pointing out how stupid you think we all are.

"""""have never used the term "expert" for myself. Never, not once."""""

Actually you did Cher. But calling yourself the senior engineer of six different kinds of work is sort of like claiming to be the "expert".

""""""Yeah, I had those jobs, and did those things, but never called myself an "expert"."""""""

And taught 33,000 engineers stuff they couldn't get in the engineering schools. Don't leave him out. Anybody who can teach 33,000 engineers must be the expert. That's more engineers than most engineering school professors get to teach, and you done it in only a few years.

Maybe you should quit saying the silly stuff for me to notice. Because Skippy, that is what ol Ira-Skippy is here for, to notice the silly stuffs and make comments on it.

Aug 25, 2015
@ glam-Skippy. I got something to show you. Not just you but everybody else. I told you that you shouldn't put me to the test. I might talk funny, but I am not stupid.

"""""have never used the term "expert" for myself. Never, not once."""""

You didn't? Well I want to show how good the records are kept here at the physorg in case peoples who say stupid things AND lies then pretend they did not say it.

Does this sound familar to you?

""""""I have expertise in several fields"""""

The following gems are ALL from ONE article you cluttered up with your boasting and crowing. ONE SINGLE ARTICLE!!! And I got dozens of the marked up that are just the same. ONE ARTICLE gave us all this. (pardon the space for extra postums but you stuck ALL this next few postums into one article)

I was a Research Engineer, testing BWR SRVs

was hired to assess the possibilities

used to teach power to these folks

was an Electronic Engineer for National Semiconductor


Aug 25, 2015
Those of you not in the field

been on several transportation committees for EPRI

My experience with power is broad

I did initial analyses of inventions

I cannot tell you how many arguments I have had about this in 55 of my 70 years

Senior Engineer for PG&E, I was on the EPRI electric vehicle committees

we developed into commercial products

a Senior Engineer for Pacific Gas & Electric in Technical Services at the time.

and went to work for myself as a technical consultant to utilities

you folk not in the field

I was Plant Engineer for Iron foundries

Time for a course in Environmental Economics.

a big mystery to you on the sidelines

ME IRA-Skippy again,,, yeah, there is more from the SAME ARTICLE.

Aug 25, 2015
education in the development of an integrated grid and the complexities of power

unaware of the technologies we already proved

me and other industrial engineers

those in not in the field get the idea

what I did as a Senior Engineer in Technical Services

We were testing the BWR SRV hammer and bubble oscillation

I earned a Master of Science in Environmental Management

with the knowledge those of us who actually

my opinion comes from a lifetime of experience

founded a small PEM-based fuel cell company.

ME: IRA-Skippy again. Now I might not be the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree, but all that in ONE article sure sounds like a guy claiming to be an expert.

Oh yeah, I almost forget. From the same article all those came from,,,

"""""""I have expertise in several fields"""""

Skippy you have postemed 11 months of that stuffs while you were not claiming to be the expert.

Aug 25, 2015
Gosh, Ira, I am really, really, sorry for doing all that stuff, but I never called myself an "Expert", did I? Yeah, that stuff is true, all of it.

I thought you had outgrown your character deficiency, like you promised. But here you are , like your otto, two yolks in one egg.

Aug 26, 2015
"but all that in ONE article sure sounds like a guy claiming to be an expert. "
---------------------------

No, Ira, it is a guy claiming to be an experienced generalist, which is what I claim to be.

Aug 26, 2015
"Gosh, Ira, I am really, really, sorry for doing all that stuff, but I never called myself an "Expert", did I? Yeah, that stuff is true, all of it"

""""""I have expertise in several fields"""""

-You lying scumbag.

"[Psychopaths] are absolutely the world's best manipulators, liars, and fabricators of truth. They do so convincingly because they believe their own lies. After all their life is nothing but a lie, a sham, how can we possibly assume they know anything different?"

-Nice work ira.

Aug 26, 2015
I have a great idea: Why don't otto and Ira trade insults with each other?

We can streamline the process.

The rest of us can discuss the issues.

Aug 29, 2015
"I have a great idea: Why don't otto and Ira trade insults with each other?

"We can streamline the process.

"The rest of us can discuss the issues."

-But the issue is always you isnt it?

Extreme egocentricity is a marker of psychopathy.

"They can also be Narcissists since Narcissism seems to be merely a "facet" of the psychopath or a "milder" manifestation. You could say that the Narcissist is a "garden variety psychopath" who, because of his or her "social programming," has less likelihood of running afoul of the law. In this way, they are very efficient "survival machines," living out their lives doing untold damage to their families, friends and business associates."

Aug 29, 2015
"Extreme egocentricity is a marker of psychopathy."
-------------------------------
FIXATION ALERT!!

We have to be careful when those with wimpy egos realize they have gone from Wannabe to Neverwas. They fixate on the successes of others, and can be dangerous, with their emotional instability.

Aug 29, 2015
"We have to be careful when those with wimpy egos realize they have gone from Wannabe to Neverwas. They fixate on the successes of others, and can be dangerous, with their emotional instability"

-But george we know that you never were most of the things you claim to have been.

How do we know this? From the evidence you yourself have presented.

We know that you have lied about so much because you cant stand to be the person you actually are.

You cant see this because you are drastically cognitively impaired.

Its a defense mechanism.

Poor baby.

Aug 29, 2015
We have to be careful when those with giant egos realize they have gone from Neverwas to Wannabe. They fixate on the successes of themselves, and can be dangerous, with their emotional instability.

There, I fixed it for you. You're welcome

Its always about you, isn't it George?

Aug 29, 2015
My Two ottos. Probably separated at birth, but now finding each other through common character deficiencies.

It's a real love story.

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